However, once you get far enough along, coding in a OO fashion using MVC is like a breath of fresh air. Especially for sites that a larger and more complex. Of course you can you craft your own framework, but why when there are tons of great frameworks and code libraries out there (that have large user bases). I'm using Kohana and it's cut down development time from my old way of developing considerably. I wouldn't trade my knocks I took from learning php though. The more you know about coding raw PHP before working with a framework, the far better off you will be and be able to customize a framework to your liking.

My main issue with a lot of php frameworks is that they tend to force the developer to:

build an application from a framework, rather than building a framework for a needed application.

eg. if you needed a motorcycle, you wouldn’t build it from a car(where php is the engine).

Plus if you dont get under the hood of these frameworks, and understand it, you’ll essentially be a driver rather than a mechanic of a php framework.

If you are using the Zend framework, you need to be v aware of the structure, which to my eye may be overly complex for most projects. Getting rid of spagetti code and replacing it with spagetti structure, IMHO.

View the structure here:http://talks.php.net/presentations/slides/intro/zf.png

Recently Rasmus Lerdorf (creator of php), gave an interesting talk on the subject of php and its frameworks, it may give you a clearer insight into you use of php ?

Video of talk http://www.archive.org/details/simple_is_hard
Slides of talk http://talks.php.net/show/drupal08

In my previous comment I wasn’t moaning that ZF is thoroughly documented. I was expressing my anguish that it can take a long time to learn a framework. When I first started reading about frameworks i got moved by the hype thinking that i had been slogging away ‘coding the hard way’ whilst, all a long, a miraculous ‘easy way’ had been there for the taking…
“In 15 minutes, we go from scratch to complete weblog engine with comments, ajax, an ATOM feed…”etc http://rubyonrails.org/screencasts

The point is – its not as miraculous as the the hype says it is. Its still hard learning. But, as Vip says, once mastered it can do wonders.

Anyway – Vip puts it much better than i did:

“4. if you decide to use Frameworks, be ready for a long learning curve to master it, but it’s important to master it to make full use of it”

For every code junkie that thinks writing their own library/framework is better than getting whole heartedly behind a framework is better – there’s a reason your life is the way it is and why you’ll have a very hard time becoming VP. You’re selfish, insecure and afraid.

Selfish because you keep focusing on your convenience and habitual patterns instead of the company’s bottom line. Insecure because rolling your own libraries makes you feel important and irreplaceable, after all who knows your code better than you? Afraid because joining a community of true professionals and freely contributing forces you to be scrutinized and to continually challenge yourself to increase your skill set.

There are millions of people who can get the job done. There are millions of people just like you all over the internet. There are kids in India right now that would steal your job for less than 1/10th what they pay you and you better believe they’re crawling the web trying to learn more.

At the end of the day us little people at the bottom have to focus on the objectives of those at the top. We are part of a massive global economic system with the internet becoming more accessible. Information is free. Programmer’s are losing their value. Big business need business leader’s not just code junkies. When you align yourself to the company’s bottom line – ecreased expenses, ridiculous deadline, time-to-market, return-on-investment, competition, increased profitability, etc., etc. – you will find yourself

Keep in mind the things like PEAR, PCEL and other “collections” are already widespread. The benefit of frameworks and widely supported libraries is that they have the opportunity to be stress tested through a greater variety of actual use scenarios that your private code doesn’t get. Also, from an enterprise perspective (you know the people that pay your salary) they are going to be very interested in long term product support, maintainability, scaling, project cost, etc.

Building your application of top of a popular and widely supported framework, especially one like Zend Framework which works hard to maintain an enterprise friendly brand and support system is the difference between whether or not you’ll have a job in five years. Zend’s name and certification system is what enterprises will place their confidence in. So you can jump in wholeheartedly, contribute to make the framework better or look for another line of work because you’ll be replaced by someone who is not only technically competent and skill but also a great business focused leader.

If you want a life that is more well rounded and free from the plagues that affect over 97% of the world then you must be swift to discern it’s patterns and run in the opposite direction. Flexibility is freedom.

About 2 years ago, Zend Framework was responsible for pushing me over to OO PHP. I wholly hold ZF responsible for that, it provided the mechanism for me to learn. It also taught me the MVC pattern as well as enabling me to recognise OO patterns such as Registry, Singleton and Factory.

Simple stuff I know but 2 years ago, I hadn’t a clue.

@ronny
You’re ‘complaining’ because ZF has a ’short novel’ to read when you want to use a component. True. I’d rather have a short novel if it means use cases, code examples and explanation, than something half-baked.

It’s proper documentation, it’s actually useful when you can’t remember how to use minorMethodFoo(), rather than rely on hand-me-down knowledge or use the API to work it out yourself. It’s 95% there, with examples, with use cases, if theres an alternate interface, it’s most likely documented. It’s something to be positive about, it’s not a barrier. It’s there to help you when you don’t know already, you can use it to help yourself. There is very little need to ask someone else if what your asking about is already in front of you.

Also, You don’t need to read the whole documentation about a component before using it, much like you don’t need to read the whole recipe before fetching the ingredients.

There’s already a solution available to companies in order to maintain consistency among their coders: code reviews. Within my team we are not allowed to push any of our own code to production servers. Every line of code is reviewed before it is pushed to production. This adds time to the process, but it saves time in the long run with conventions compliant code that all of our developers are familiar with.

When I was a young, would-be Marine on Parris Island a Drill Instructor told my platoon something while learning to drill that has been surprisingly influential in my life. He said, “Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.” A note we should all keep in mind when programming.

* php script needs writing / amending
* oh Zend Framework has a solution
* blimey i’ve got to read a short novel of documentation before i can implement this simple functionality
* it’d be quicker just to write it myself, from scratch + my own library of code

By this time I’m feeling fed-up that i’d wasted so much time investigating the option of using the framework and groan when i read things like “So just choose a framework and start coding!”.

I know that its better in the long run to use a framework – for team work etc.
But , I just never seem to be able to justify the time to learn them. Especially when i can get a particular task done quicker by using my own, stuck-in-my-ways, methods.

I think frameworks are only “AMAZING” for writing ‘new applications’. I’ve found it very painful trying to plug it into my existing code.

In summary: I think Zend Framework is amazing – i just wish i had the time to learn how to harness it.